PIAA T&F State Championships 2011
05/23/2011 9:06:35 PM
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Every event in girls AAA has some entries that don't even meet the District 1 qualifying standard. Likewise there are athletes from District 1 who bettered the state qualifying standard in the District meet but did not place in the top 8. These athletes do not get into the State meet. Does anyone feel this is a problem the PIAA should address?
Every event in girls AAA has some entries that don't even meet the District 1 qualifying standard. Likewise there are athletes from District 1 who bettered the state qualifying standard in the District meet but did not place in the top 8. These athletes do not get into the State meet. Does anyone feel this is a problem the PIAA should address?
05/25/2011 8:56:25 AM
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The way district 1 AAA has become in 2011 is something that was created by the coaches and athletes who knew they had to become better at their craft in order to qualify. So one side of the coin is that you're going to have to be tough to make it out of that district. The flip side is that you become a favorite to medal the next weekend. As far as PIAA looking into this, I honestly don't know what they can do. Some say the district is huge and that it needs to split. Or what I think can happen is that the cutoff between AA and AAA can be a lot bigger than 280 students.
The way district 1 AAA has become in 2011 is something that was created by the coaches and athletes who knew they had to become better at their craft in order to qualify. So one side of the coin is that you're going to have to be tough to make it out of that district. The flip side is that you become a favorite to medal the next weekend. As far as PIAA looking into this, I honestly don't know what they can do. Some say the district is huge and that it needs to split. Or what I think can happen is that the cutoff between AA and AAA can be a lot bigger than 280 students.
05/25/2011 7:41:27 PM
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@NrgPlyr I would love to see the district split into approximately two 30 team districts. That would create 16 possible state qualifiers instead 60+ teams competing for only 8 spots.
@NrgPlyr I would love to see the district split into approximately two 30 team districts. That would create 16 possible state qualifiers instead 60+ teams competing for only 8 spots.
05/26/2011 9:41:35 AM
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I feel for the District 1 teams that had outstanding performances and didn't make the state meet. Personally, I feel the resolution to this issue is creating a AAAA in T&F. Out of the top 100 largest schools in PA, about half of them reside in District 1.
I feel for the District 1 teams that had outstanding performances and didn't make the state meet. Personally, I feel the resolution to this issue is creating a AAAA in T&F. Out of the top 100 largest schools in PA, about half of them reside in District 1.
05/26/2011 12:53:21 PM
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@HanoverIce Hate this argument. Look at how many AAA runners don't get to go to the state meet but run the AA standard. The state meet is really just about individuals and relay teams. No need to water it down even more. wjarratt's idea is better IMO. that or re evaluate the state qualifying standards. really no district should be having 8+ athletes hitting the SQS except once in a blue moon.
@HanoverIce

Hate this argument. Look at how many AAA runners don't get to go to the state meet but run the AA standard. The state meet is really just about individuals and relay teams. No need to water it down even more.

wjarratt's idea is better IMO. that or re evaluate the state qualifying standards. really no district should be having 8+ athletes hitting the SQS except once in a blue moon.
05/26/2011 2:18:17 PM
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I suggested a AAAA division because it is silly to expect a school with 300 graduates to compete with schools graduating 800-1200 kids. That would be the same as football expecting a A school with a graduating class of 80 kids to compete with AAA schools.
I suggested a AAAA division because it is silly to expect a school with 300 graduates to compete with schools graduating 800-1200 kids. That would be the same as football expecting a A school with a graduating class of 80 kids to compete with AAA schools.
05/26/2011 2:54:31 PM
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RUNNER1000 is spot on. Please, no more districts and no more classifications. Neither will resolve the circumstance where some athletes that can run faster, jump higher/farther, and/or throw farther than some of those competing in the PIAA championships this weekend will be at home. This is frustrating for certain athletes, coaches, parents, and fans, but it is not a problem to the PIAA. The current system shows that the PIAA wants each district to be represented and that they also want a quality field. As in years past, they’ll have both on Friday. Each district will have at least one participant and PIAA has ensured a quality field by allowing up to eight participants from each district to participate provided they have met the SQS. With the exception of certain events like the 3200 that have no preliminaries, most participants that received a district automatic qualifying spot who did not also attain the SQS will not make it out of preliminaries on Friday. So while it is unfortunate that some athletes who achieve the SQS are not able to compete at the championship meet, the current system ensures there will be a quality field on Saturday. Perhaps one way to reduce the number of non-SQS athletes would be to have a single automatic qualifier per district while continuing to allow up to eight total participants per district provided they meet the SQS. Appropriate SQS’s would ensure few districts are sending eight athletes in each event and limiting the total number of qualifying participants. Is the current system perfect? No. There is no perfect system. We can all sympathize with the athletes who hit the SQS but weren’t afforded the opportunity to compete. But it is hard to understand how creating more districts or more classifications would resolve this issue. With more districts and more classification there would be more opportunities for such circumstances to occur. [And you’ll have even more of the annual posts about why there are different standards for different classes and PA needing a MOC.]
RUNNER1000 is spot on. Please, no more districts and no more classifications. Neither will resolve the circumstance where some athletes that can run faster, jump higher/farther, and/or throw farther than some of those competing in the PIAA championships this weekend will be at home. This is frustrating for certain athletes, coaches, parents, and fans, but it is not a problem to the PIAA.

The current system shows that the PIAA wants each district to be represented and that they also want a quality field. As in years past, they'll have both on Friday. Each district will have at least one participant and PIAA has ensured a quality field by allowing up to eight participants from each district to participate provided they have met the SQS.

With the exception of certain events like the 3200 that have no preliminaries, most participants that received a district automatic qualifying spot who did not also attain the SQS will not make it out of preliminaries on Friday. So while it is unfortunate that some athletes who achieve the SQS are not able to compete at the championship meet, the current system ensures there will be a quality field on Saturday.

Perhaps one way to reduce the number of non-SQS athletes would be to have a single automatic qualifier per district while continuing to allow up to eight total participants per district provided they meet the SQS. Appropriate SQS's would ensure few districts are sending eight athletes in each event and limiting the total number of qualifying participants.

Is the current system perfect? No. There is no perfect system. We can all sympathize with the athletes who hit the SQS but weren't afforded the opportunity to compete. But it is hard to understand how creating more districts or more classifications would resolve this issue. With more districts and more classification there would be more opportunities for such circumstances to occur.
05/27/2011 9:08:01 AM
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@HanoverIce In the same note, if we have a AAAA for track, then I guess we should have an A as well? That idea won't work. What they need to do is merge District 1 with District 12. A number of the schools in D12, should be in D1 anyway. Then there would be 7 autos and I guess take up to 15 people if they meet the state qualifying time. Then the quality for the state meet would be much better.
@HanoverIce In the same note, if we have a AAAA for track, then I guess we should have an A as well? That idea won't work. What they need to do is merge District 1 with District 12. A number of the schools in D12, should be in D1 anyway. Then there would be 7 autos and I guess take up to 15 people if they meet the state qualifying time. Then the quality for the state meet would be much better.
05/27/2011 12:16:08 PM
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@wolfburn I disagree. District one already is the biggest district, it would be an injustice to all D1 athletes to add another district to D1.
@wolfburn
I disagree. District one already is the biggest district, it would be an injustice to all D1 athletes to add another district to D1.
05/27/2011 1:13:02 PM
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How about the winner of each district goes to states, then the rest of the field is based on their performance at districts. I realize that weather can play factor. But you will get each district represented, and get the fastest runners/longest throwers/etc.
How about the winner of each district goes to states, then the rest of the field is based on their performance at districts. I realize that weather can play factor. But you will get each district represented, and get the fastest runners/longest throwers/etc.
05/27/2011 7:50:51 PM
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@RUNNER1000 Just an example of what we are up against in District 1: In the AAA girls 4x100 this year 15 teams ran SQS. Last year 16 teams ran SQS and in 2009 13 teams better the SQS in the trials. It's tough for all those one and done teams to see a mid :51 team enjoying the thrill of competing in the state meet
@RUNNER1000
Just an example of what we are up against in District 1: In the AAA girls 4x100 this year 15 teams ran SQS. Last year 16 teams ran SQS and in 2009 13 teams better the SQS in the trials. It's tough for all those one and done teams to see a mid :51 team enjoying the thrill of competing in the state meet
05/28/2011 12:23:35 PM
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Any update on why Ryan Gil didnt run the 3200?
Any update on why Ryan Gil didnt run the 3200?
05/29/2011 11:14:54 AM
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@hxcrunner1 Stress fracture.
@hxcrunner1 Stress fracture.
05/30/2011 11:24:25 AM
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In our day and age it should be pretty simple to establish meets in which you can qualify for states. They must have FAT and a PIAA official to verify the time. It seems to work for Olympic Trials, NCAA, etc. As a coach I think it would benefit the runners because you don't have to worry about districts. Qualify early and focus on training. Of course, being district champion still means something and you could still qualify at the district meet.
In our day and age it should be pretty simple to establish meets in which you can qualify for states. They must have FAT and a PIAA official to verify the time. It seems to work for Olympic Trials, NCAA, etc. As a coach I think it would benefit the runners because you don't have to worry about districts. Qualify early and focus on training. Of course, being district champion still means something and you could still qualify at the district meet.
05/30/2011 10:17:51 PM
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@burthoovis Burthoovis, it is good to see that I'm not the only person who thinks having just one meet to qualify for the state meet is ridiculous. The athletes have all season to qualify for the district meet. That system works for the indoor state meet. Yet the PIAA still only wants to give athletes one chance at one meet to qualify for the state meet.
@burthoovis
Burthoovis, it is good to see that I'm not the only person who thinks having just one meet to qualify for the state meet is ridiculous. The athletes have all season to qualify for the district meet. That system works for the indoor state meet. Yet the PIAA still only wants to give athletes one chance at one meet to qualify for the state meet.
06/02/2011 2:33:09 AM
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I agree that they need to change and modernize the qualification method, but any new system should still at least somewhat spread out where participants are coming from. There should be more athletes from D1 than D8 competing at the state meet, certainly, but a lot of districts have less opportunity and less student athletes to put up fast times. Judging solely by time wouldn't work either. In D9, there are only 4 girls AAA schools, for example. Only one graduates more than 200 kids in a class, if that. And all 4 schools are close to a 2 hour bus ride away from Erie, Pittsburgh or Altoona/State College. It's not easy to get to meets that are going to have a lot of really good athletes. They might only get to 1 or 2 a year. For most of these small districts, they are only taking the district champ in each event at states. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, regardless of what times or distances they run. There are probably a handful of schools in D1 or D7 that have as many girls in their senior class this year as all the graduating classes of the D9 AAA girls schools put together. None of the small districts are doing that bad when you think of it that way. Maybe the best way is to have the top 1 or 2 finishers in each event at Districts make it and then do everybody else by qualifying time, regardless of district performance. That would take a lot of the drama out of the district meets, which as a spectator and fan I would really miss.
I agree that they need to change and modernize the qualification method, but any new system should still at least somewhat spread out where participants are coming from.

There should be more athletes from D1 than D8 competing at the state meet, certainly, but a lot of districts have less opportunity and less student athletes to put up fast times. Judging solely by time wouldn't work either.

In D9, there are only 4 girls AAA schools, for example. Only one graduates more than 200 kids in a class, if that. And all 4 schools are close to a 2 hour bus ride away from Erie, Pittsburgh or Altoona/State College. It's not easy to get to meets that are going to have a lot of really good athletes. They might only get to 1 or 2 a year.

For most of these small districts, they are only taking the district champ in each event at states. That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, regardless of what times or distances they run.

There are probably a handful of schools in D1 or D7 that have as many girls in their senior class this year as all the graduating classes of the D9 AAA girls schools put together. None of the small districts are doing that bad when you think of it that way.

Maybe the best way is to have the top 1 or 2 finishers in each event at Districts make it and then do everybody else by qualifying time, regardless of district performance. That would take a lot of the drama out of the district meets, which as a spectator and fan I would really miss.
06/03/2011 10:23:35 AM
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Kinkead/Guidera from CB East? both seniors and didn't run at states? are they running college? Ann Herman from Pennsbury? - is she a senior, if yes is she running in college? Jenna Gigliotti? She disappeared, was really good sophomore-junior year i believe. I'm curious to see where 2012 class goes to college Magaha, Willis, Hibbs, Gerlach, Mcgovern, Seykora, Augustyn..
Kinkead/Guidera from CB East? both seniors and didn't run at states? are they running college?
Ann Herman from Pennsbury? - is she a senior, if yes is she running in college?
Jenna Gigliotti? She disappeared, was really good sophomore-junior year i believe.

I'm curious to see where 2012 class goes to college Magaha, Willis, Hibbs, Gerlach, Mcgovern, Seykora, Augustyn..
06/03/2011 10:23:55 AM
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Kinkead/Guidera from CB East? both seniors and didn't run at states? are they running college? Ann Herman from Pennsbury? - is she a senior, if yes is she running in college? Jenna Gigliotti? She disappeared, was really good sophomore-junior year i believe. I'm curious to see where 2012 class goes to college Magaha, Willis, Hibbs, Gerlach, Mcgovern, Seykora, Augustyn, Malone, Piccorillo..
Kinkead/Guidera from CB East? both seniors and didn't run at states? are they running college?
Ann Herman from Pennsbury? - is she a senior, if yes is she running in college?
Jenna Gigliotti? She disappeared, was really good sophomore-junior year i believe.

I'm curious to see where 2012 class goes to college Magaha, Willis, Hibbs, Gerlach, Mcgovern, Seykora, Augustyn, Malone, Piccorillo..
06/03/2011 12:06:53 PM
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@Lobster From what a friend told me, there were some complications encountered by Jenna. She still made a good showing, all things considered, in my opinion.
@Lobster

From what a friend told me, there were some complications encountered by Jenna. She still made a good showing, all things considered, in my opinion.

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