Is the PA State XC Championship course moving next year?
09/27/2015 1:20:24 PM
Coach
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4
We've been hearing rumors that the State XC Championship will NOT be at Hershey next year due to construction of a water park or something. Along with that rumor is that next year it will be held at the Big Spring XC course in Newville. Is there anyone who follows this board that can say definitively what the status is for next year? Or at least that the meet will NOT be held in Hershey next year? Perhaps with next years site yet to be determined? Personally I can't wait for the biggest meet of the year to be moved from the current Hershey location. It is an AWFUL spectator course, and while everyone has to race the same course, I think most folks who are knowledgeable about XC would probably suggest it's not fair test of the best PA has to offer each year. Parking is great though!
We've been hearing rumors that the State XC Championship will NOT be at Hershey next year due to construction of a water park or something.

Along with that rumor is that next year it will be held at the Big Spring XC course in Newville.

Is there anyone who follows this board that can say definitively what the status is for next year? Or at least that the meet will NOT be held in Hershey next year? Perhaps with next years site yet to be determined?

Personally I can't wait for the biggest meet of the year to be moved from the current Hershey location. It is an AWFUL spectator course, and while everyone has to race the same course, I think most folks who are knowledgeable about XC would probably suggest it's not fair test of the best PA has to offer each year.

Parking is great though!
09/27/2015 4:49:02 PM
User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 137
i haven't heard anything
i haven't heard anything
09/28/2015 10:24:15 AM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 20
Big Spring is no better with spectating....and I don't see how Hershey isn't a fair test? It has ups, downs, all different terrain. I think it separates the great from the good.
Big Spring is no better with spectating....and I don't see how Hershey isn't a fair test? It has ups, downs, all different terrain. I think it separates the great from the good.
09/29/2015 8:42:40 AM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1501
[quote=mrmst42]Big Spring is no better with spectating....and I don't see how Hershey isn't a fair test? It has ups, downs, all different terrain. I think it separates the great from the good.[/quote] @mrmst42 Are you kidding? At Hershey you can see the start/finish and miss the middle of the race, or you can see the middle of the race and miss the start/finish. It's terrible. At Big Spring you can see them a couple times. You can get from the start over to the middle and back without too much trouble. It's tremendously better for spectators.
mrmst42 wrote:
Big Spring is no better with spectating....and I don't see how Hershey isn't a fair test? It has ups, downs, all different terrain. I think it separates the great from the good.


@mrmst42

Are you kidding? At Hershey you can see the start/finish and miss the middle of the race, or you can see the middle of the race and miss the start/finish. It's terrible.

At Big Spring you can see them a couple times. You can get from the start over to the middle and back without too much trouble. It's tremendously better for spectators.
09/30/2015 12:21:43 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 20
@JimDillner I guess I should've rephrased that. I run all over the place to see, and I can do that at Hershey. If I wanted to go into the woods at Big Spring (like I did), I see them 4 spots, as opposed to 5 at Hershey. But most spectators are not like me, so yes, you are right Big Spring would be better.
@JimDillner I guess I should've rephrased that. I run all over the place to see, and I can do that at Hershey. If I wanted to go into the woods at Big Spring (like I did), I see them 4 spots, as opposed to 5 at Hershey. But most spectators are not like me, so yes, you are right Big Spring would be better.
09/30/2015 8:12:50 PM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1501
@mrmst42 Yes, spectators are there to watch the race, not be in it. Sure, someone who is a good runner can run to the middle and run back, but if you want to carry a nice camera and enjoy as best you can, Big Spring is far better. The old layout of Hershey was better, because it ended near the middle. You could be close enough to the start (same location as now) to hear the gun and start your watch, then walk to the middle and see a lot before walking 50 yards to see the finish. One of the best meets for spectators is the Lancaster Lebanon League meet. You can see the runners start, watch them at the mile, see a bit of the middle then make it to the finish line. With at pair of binoculars you can see quite a bit of the race.
@mrmst42
Yes, spectators are there to watch the race, not be in it. Sure, someone who is a good runner can run to the middle and run back, but if you want to carry a nice camera and enjoy as best you can, Big Spring is far better.

The old layout of Hershey was better, because it ended near the middle. You could be close enough to the start (same location as now) to hear the gun and start your watch, then walk to the middle and see a lot before walking 50 yards to see the finish.

One of the best meets for spectators is the Lancaster Lebanon League meet. You can see the runners start, watch them at the mile, see a bit of the middle then make it to the finish line. With at pair of binoculars you can see quite a bit of the race.
10/02/2015 10:21:26 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3
You won't find many better spectator courses than Cooper's Lake run by John Papa at Slippery Rock University
You won't find many better spectator courses than Cooper's Lake run by John Papa at Slippery Rock University
10/02/2015 10:44:23 AM
Coach
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 262
[quote=galdrich]You won't find many better spectator courses than Cooper's Lake run by John Papa at Slippery Rock University[/quote] @galdrich I've been saying this forever Coach.
galdrich wrote:
You won't find many better spectator courses than Cooper's Lake run by John Papa at Slippery Rock University


@galdrich

I've been saying this forever Coach.
10/02/2015 12:31:49 PM
User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 166
@garlan You two guys know I'm already in your choir!
@garlan

You two guys know I'm already in your choir!
10/03/2015 2:49:00 PM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1501
Cooper's Lake (I've never seen it) may be a great course, but I suppose that since it is not centrally located, there would probably be complaints about the distance from some schools. I have lived up there and seen meet photos on here. There is a greater chance of snow up there that time of year than in the south-central area of the state. I hate to see any meet run in snow.
Cooper's Lake (I've never seen it) may be a great course, but I suppose that since it is not centrally located, there would probably be complaints about the distance from some schools.

I have lived up there and seen meet photos on here. There is a greater chance of snow up there that time of year than in the south-central area of the state. I hate to see any meet run in snow.
10/03/2015 4:39:51 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 47
Since most of the athletes come from d1 it makes no sense to have it in the western part of the state. South Central PA makes the most sense.
Since most of the athletes come from d1 it makes no sense to have it in the western part of the state. South Central PA makes the most sense.
10/03/2015 7:14:20 PM
User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 57
I believe the most equitable solution for the site of future state XC championships would be to establish some sort of rotation where each of the 12 Districts in PA. are given an opportunity to host the meet. Why should the teams from extreme western pa. or Erie have to travel such a great distance every year. Move the race around. Coopers Lake should definitely be in that rotation.As for District 3 I would vote for the course at Carlisle over either Hershey or Big Springs. Regarding the possibility of having to deal with snow or extreme cold if the meet were held in the western part of the state : GET OVER IT! This is cross country folks and dealing with unpredictable weather is all part of the equation and what makes XC the great sport it is.
I believe the most equitable solution for the site of future state XC championships would be to establish some sort of rotation where each of the 12 Districts in PA. are given an opportunity to host the meet. Why should the teams from extreme western pa. or Erie have to travel such a great distance every year. Move the race around. Coopers Lake should definitely be in that rotation.As for District 3 I would vote for the course at Carlisle over either Hershey or Big Springs.
Regarding the possibility of having to deal with snow or extreme cold if the meet were held in the western part of the state : GET OVER IT! This is cross country folks and dealing with unpredictable weather is all part of the equation and what makes XC the great sport it is.
10/03/2015 7:56:33 PM
Coach
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 16
@CinderMiler Better check your facts. Most of the AAA runners come from D1. However, if you take into account ALL THREE classifications, D1 accounts for 14.5% of the teams competing at the state meet, while D7 accounts for 20%. As far as individual qualifiers go, D1 makes up, again, 15% of the competitors. D7 accounts for, again, 20%. Looks like Cooper's Lake better get ready to host the state meet.
@CinderMiler
Better check your facts. Most of the AAA runners come from D1. However, if you take into account ALL THREE classifications, D1 accounts for 14.5% of the teams competing at the state meet, while D7 accounts for 20%. As far as individual qualifiers go, D1 makes up, again, 15% of the competitors. D7 accounts for, again, 20%. Looks like Cooper's Lake better get ready to host the state meet.
10/03/2015 8:30:58 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 47
@fnesko OK I just checked my facts. According to the PIAA website, 50% of all schools in PA come from districts 1,3,11 & 12. This is basically the south easter corner of PA. It would be crazy to make 50% of the state drive 7 to 8 hours for the state meet.
@fnesko OK I just checked my facts. According to the PIAA website, 50% of all schools in PA come from districts 1,3,11 & 12. This is basically the south easter corner of PA. It would be crazy to make 50% of the state drive 7 to 8 hours for the state meet.
10/03/2015 8:39:34 PM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1501
[quote=solancoflyer] Regarding the possibility of having to deal with snow or extreme cold if the meet were held in the western part of the state : GET OVER IT! This is cross country folks and dealing with unpredictable weather is all part of the equation and what makes XC the great sport it is.[/quote] @solancoflyer as much as I hear this line of reasoning quite often, I disagree. In my mind, the sport is about running, and running is best on dry ground. Sure, you can get away with meets in the snow, and have a few ambulances there that might be needed. A couple years ago it snowed in October, and that was the day of the MAC championship at Messiah. Kids were falling all over the place, and limbs were down lots of places. Even the spectators were falling.
solancoflyer wrote:

Regarding the possibility of having to deal with snow or extreme cold if the meet were held in the western part of the state : GET OVER IT! This is cross country folks and dealing with unpredictable weather is all part of the equation and what makes XC the great sport it is.


@solancoflyer

as much as I hear this line of reasoning quite often, I disagree. In my mind, the sport is about running, and running is best on dry ground. Sure, you can get away with meets in the snow, and have a few ambulances there that might be needed.

A couple years ago it snowed in October, and that was the day of the MAC championship at Messiah. Kids were falling all over the place, and limbs were down lots of places. Even the spectators were falling.
10/03/2015 8:58:53 PM
Coach
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 16
@CinderMiler Point taken. Your previous post mentioned only d1. I agree it would not be fair to make the d1, d3, d11, and d12 qualifiers drive 7 to 8 hours to compete. By the way, where would they be driving from, the jersey shore?? We should keep making the d5, d6, d7/8, d9, and d10 qualifiers, not to mention their families, drive 4 to 6 hours EVERY year, to perhaps the worst spectator course in the state. That does make sense.
@CinderMiler
Point taken. Your previous post mentioned only d1. I agree it would not be fair to make the d1, d3, d11, and d12 qualifiers drive 7 to 8 hours to compete. By the way, where would they be driving from, the jersey shore?? We should keep making the d5, d6, d7/8, d9, and d10 qualifiers, not to mention their families, drive 4 to 6 hours EVERY year, to perhaps the worst spectator course in the state. That does make sense.
10/03/2015 9:09:36 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 47
@fnesko What is needed is a location central in the state with enough hotels for 5,000 people. I'm a fan of keeping the same course every year for legacy time comparison. State College fits the bill for all counts. I would move the meet permanently to State College, and design a course there.
@fnesko
What is needed is a location central in the state with enough hotels for 5,000 people. I'm a fan of keeping the same course every year for legacy time comparison. State College fits the bill for all counts.

I would move the meet permanently to State College, and design a course there.
10/03/2015 10:45:17 PM
User
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 84
@CinderMiler The Northwest corner of the state is extremely weak in XC. To make 80% of good runners in the state travel to Slippery Rock doesn't make sense.
@CinderMiler The Northwest corner of the state is extremely weak in XC. To make 80% of good runners in the state travel to Slippery Rock doesn't make sense.
10/04/2015 7:46:34 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 36
I did not pull out a map before writing this so I could stand corrected. Coopers lake is not as far north as slippery rock just a little north of Pittsburgh. We run d7 there every year and it is a great spectator course and more importantly a very fair course for the runners. I also went to Penn State and I believe our chances of getting snow there are better than just north of Pittsburgh. Hershey has all the things we want for a championship site in terms of travel, hotels, parking, etc. I am not a fan of the Hershey course but if they would adjust the last part eliminating the plunge to the road and the hill right before the finish it becomes a pretty good course. One of my parents suggested filming the race from above with a drone and having some big screens for the spectators. I'd bring my chair for that
I did not pull out a map before writing this so I could stand corrected. Coopers lake is not as far north as slippery rock just a little north of Pittsburgh. We run d7 there every year and it is a great spectator course and more importantly a very fair course for the runners. I also went to Penn State and I believe our chances of getting snow there are better than just north of Pittsburgh. Hershey has all the things we want for a championship site in terms of travel, hotels, parking, etc. I am not a fan of the Hershey course but if they would adjust the last part eliminating the plunge to the road and the hill right before the finish it becomes a pretty good course. One of my parents suggested filming the race from above with a drone and having some big screens for the spectators. I'd bring my chair for that
10/04/2015 6:18:11 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 47
@mrgxc I think Hershey is a fair test because it's not just a grass track. I actually contacted the PIAA about filming the state XC meet with drone / quadcopter technology. They said it is currently against PIAA rules to use drones. They are afraid of a spectator getting hurt by a malfunctioning drone. I had contacted a professional filming company abo6 setup to stream content live. It would have been,would be awesome. Maybe in the future.
@mrgxc

I think Hershey is a fair test because it's not just a grass track.

I actually contacted the PIAA about filming the state XC meet with drone / quadcopter technology. They said it is currently against PIAA rules to use drones. They are afraid of a spectator getting hurt by a malfunctioning drone. I had contacted a professional filming company abo6 setup to stream content live. It would have been,would be awesome.

Maybe in the future.

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.